Syncing feeling ?

[Acrobat]

so that only some experience can give you an authentic impression of the actual dsp quality.

I hate to say, but I think you are too much sarcastic with noobs at times, and sometimes being not so pro as you think you are, as "DSP quality" does NOT exist, actually, it is kind of an oxymoron to my ears. Quality is always referred to products, not simulations or computations.

[MichaelBenjamin]

maybe you are right. best i can say is that it was not meant in a sarcastic way (i looked it up again what it means), or to judge and demoralize anyone. if that is your impression, maybe i can think about some better words to come up with.
on a second thought i agree that the term dsp quality can be regarded as nonsense at first sight. maybe a better term to explain would be the dsp visionarity, where the numbers express rules generated by humans resulting in gazillions of anchorpoints for that inspiration thing that humanity needs to survive. or in another way. the next minimoog clone wont do that. thats stagnation. in this sense - why should quality, as a term to describe the utility factor for humanity only be attached to 4d matter?
and tell me where i am "not so pro as i think", you know this is a stab from behind i can not tolerate without some hard evidence. i am curious. (on the other side, being not so pro as one thinks is probably natural, so i also could agree with this, but just for the fun - give me a link)

btw: just because i dont use the smilies does not mean i am raging arrogant or an emotionally devoid cynical while typing this (atleast i hope so). while i agree that it can be hard at the internet to always assume a friendly undertone, i decided some years ago not to use any emotional expressions with additional signs in text that i write. maybe i should put a signature "dont take the above serious at all" but i think it also works this way.

[aliasant]

MB.

Start using smileys ffs!


I used to run a gamers community and most common problem we, as admins, had to deal with was people not clearly understanding others caused by jokes or similar that didnt have smileys. Some became enemies for life but after a lot of admin hours of mediation from admins became best friend for life.... until the next poorly written joke slipped into a thread.

Its easy in the real world to see if another is joking or not. You look at the face, gestures etc.

We have to help eachother out here.
Past weeks has been way to many silly arguments between good, intelligent members here at SM and many of them could have been avoided if we only undewrstood eachother correctly. In the northern hemisphere heat might be blamed as well as to little vacation time.

Use smileys.
Help us understand

[trogluddite]

Midi to Poly - & now i must trigger the Filters/ASDR/AmpEnvolopes + +

Do you have some small example .osm of how you are doing this that you can post? or maybe audio example of what you hear as bad and good? - sounds like the kind of problem where words don't describe it too well.
For most synths, connecting the MIDI to Poly 'Gate' output to the gate of the envelopes is the only kind of 'triggering' needed; Osci's, Filters etc. just start automatically when the MIDI to Poly creates a new voice. Because the MIDI to Poly outputs and all of the envelope/osc/filter are all streams (white), all of this happens on exactly the same sample - even if the schematic is very complex or untidy. So, I'm not sure there really is such a thing as a 'bad' way to arrange the 'triggering' of a new note - it will always happen on the same sample when the MIDI to Poly receives the Note On message.
OTOH, there are many poor synths (digital and analogue) with 'sluggish' envelopes or filters which 'smear' the sound - they can make for the poor playing experience you describe, even though there is nothing technically wrong with the note triggering itself.
Think you must be lucky to have the 'golden ears' that can hear these things - I am an old punk rocker, so bad timing and tuning sounds quite normal to me!

[2nvu]

Midi to Poly - & now i must trigger the Filters/ASDR/AmpEnvolopes + +

Do you have some small example .osm of how you are doing this that you can post? or maybe audio example of what you hear as bad and good? - sounds like the kind of problem where words don't describe it too well.
For most synths, connecting the MIDI to Poly 'Gate' output to the gate of the envelopes is the only kind of 'triggering' needed; Osci's, Filters etc. just start automatically when the MIDI to Poly creates a new voice. Because the MIDI to Poly outputs and all of the envelope/osc/filter are all streams (white), all of this happens on exactly the same sample - even if the schematic is very complex or untidy. So, I'm not sure there really is such a thing as a 'bad' way to arrange the 'triggering' of a new note - it will always happen on the same sample when the MIDI to Poly receives the Note On message.
OTOH, there are many poor synths (digital and analogue) with 'sluggish' envelopes or filters which 'smear' the sound - they can make for the poor playing experience you describe, even though there is nothing technically wrong with the note triggering itself.
Think you must be lucky to have the 'golden ears' that can hear these things - I am an old punk rocker, so bad timing and tuning sounds quite normal to me!

Hahah thanks , i have posted in examples an Osm , PimpOscRiffwurX. triggering , hmm i thought that u could route out from midi2ploy say? velocity to Ampenv/ same Velo 2 filter, so as to refresh , sorry bud, this whole triggerin thing piss's me offffffffffffffff

[trogluddite]

Ah now I see, think we are each using the word 'triggering' to mean slightly different things.
You are right, the velocity, frequency etc. outputs from the MIDI to Poly can be used for many things - I would have called that 'modulation' rather than 'triggering' - but even in SM itself, the word 'triggering' doesn't always seem to mean the same thing all the time.
Found your .osm, so I'll see what I can find in there and get back to you soon...

[2nvu]

Ah now I see, think we are each using the word 'triggering' to mean slightly different things.
You are right, the velocity, frequency etc. outputs from the MIDI to Poly can be used for many things - I would have called that 'modulation' rather than 'triggering' - but even in SM itself, the word 'triggering' doesn't always seem to mean the same thing all the time.
Found your .osm, so I'll see what I can find in there and get back to you soon...

Hey thank you Trog,,,, by the way thats the only word i can think of , Triggering,,,, Only cos its on the Mod Midi2Poly,,,but the more i experiment with the out_puts of the velo from M2P >>>> /filters/ADSR/ & other Mods, the better the repsponce, & i think that will all change when building a different synth? yeh thanks for your time of lookin into the Mod, its nice to know people are willing to help.........Jamie............

[trogluddite]

Had a chance to look through your synth at last; not had time to delve in much detail, but here's my first impressions.

Sorry to sound like your Parent/Spouse/Policeman etc., but it could really do with a bit of a tidy up - all the links that criss-cross and go over/under modules make it tricky to see what's going on. You'll most likely see a lot of the problems yourself once the routing is neater. It also makes it easier to get help on the forum coz people can find their way around easier.

Most of your routiing problems seem to be similar...
All the white poly connections in SM look the same, and SM treats them all the same way - but for a synth designer there are really two kinds of poly signal and it's the designer's job to know which is which.
Type 1) The synth's audio - any poly link carrying an actual sound. On most modules the top input/outputs (usually just called 'in' and out') carry the sound itself.
Type 2) Control Signals - these aren't sounds, but are the signals telling the synth what to do to the sound. For example, the output of an Knob, LFO or Envelope, or the signals from the MIDI to Poly. An input on a module that you might normally connect a knob to is expecting a control signal.

I see a few places in your synth where the two are being mixed in odd ways...
'To Amp Env' on the sequencer is plugged into the 'In' of the ADSR - the 'In' on the ADSR should take only the audio that you want to do an envelope on - 'To Amp Env' is a control signal, most likely for the envelope amount (multiply it with one of the VCA Levels inside the ADSR module).
The Sequencer module takes an input from the filter - but the filter output is an audio signal, so not really something that you can directly control sequencer parameters with.

The way I would tackle it would be to arrange all of the modules/links that carry the audio together in a line, from Osc>>Filter>Amp Env>>Combiner>>Delay All the remaining modules then hang off the side of the line of audio modules, feeding them with control signals.
Here's a link to the best Synth resource I've ever found - there's no programming tips or SM stuff, it just really explains what everything inside a synth is there for (Part 3 is a good explanation of control signals and modulation)
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

Of course, like all rules, there are plenty of grey areas and exceptions - so don't stop the experimenting, some very weird and wonderful things have been discovered that way too...

[2nvu]

Had a chance to look through your synth at last; not had time to delve in much detail, but here's my first impressions.

Sorry to sound like your Parent/Spouse/Policeman etc., but it could really do with a bit of a tidy up - all the links that criss-cross and go over/under modules make it tricky to see what's going on. You'll most likely see a lot of the problems yourself once the routing is neater. It also makes it easier to get help on the forum coz people can find their way around easier.

Most of your routiing problems seem to be similar...
All the white poly connections in SM look the same, and SM treats them all the same way - but for a synth designer there are really two kinds of poly signal and it's the designer's job to know which is which.
Type 1) The synth's audio - any poly link carrying an actual sound. On most modules the top input/outputs (usually just called 'in' and out') carry the sound itself.
Type 2) Control Signals - these aren't sounds, but are the signals telling the synth what to do to the sound. For example, the output of an Knob, LFO or Envelope, or the signals from the MIDI to Poly. An input on a module that you might normally connect a knob to is expecting a control signal.

I see a few places in your synth where the two are being mixed in odd ways...
'To Amp Env' on the sequencer is plugged into the 'In' of the ADSR - the 'In' on the ADSR should take only the audio that you want to do an envelope on - 'To Amp Env' is a control signal, most likely for the envelope amount (multiply it with one of the VCA Levels inside the ADSR module).
The Sequencer module takes an input from the filter - but the filter output is an audio signal, so not really something that you can directly control sequencer parameters with.

The way I would tackle it would be to arrange all of the modules/links that carry the audio together in a line, from Osc>>Filter>Amp Env>>Combiner>>Delay All the remaining modules then hang off the side of the line of audio modules, feeding them with control signals.
Here's a link to the best Synth resource I've ever found - there's no programming tips or SM stuff, it just really explains what everything inside a synth is there for (Part 3 is a good explanation of control signals and modulation)
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

Of course, like all rules, there are plenty of grey areas and exceptions - so don't stop the experimenting, some very weird and wonderful things have been discovered that way too...

Hahahha wooohhh , i have a lot to learn, but i must say thankyou very much for pointing out some very interesting fundimentals, & as it happens i have pulled out the sends from M2P/Velo/freq , that i had runing to ADSR & Filter, it did not make sence ,since they are already being trigger'd but your conformation is good news for my experimenting & big thanks for this article, looking forward to a good read Cheer's Jamie not bad for an first impression

[trogluddite]

No Problem - it's definitely headed in an interesting direction; I've always had a soft spot for those kind of polyphonic phrase-arpeggiator type thingies.

[2nvu]

No Problem - it's definitely headed in an interesting direction; I've always had a soft spot for those kind of polyphonic phrase-arpeggiator type thingies.

Hahah Same here Dude,,, Cool how they just do all the Work ? lol Psst ' Hope you have give my "Resimulator" a look? & a whirl , she's running like a dream,,,,but of course still needs some additional Tweaks, under the hood.... its only 2&half Megs desktop/vsti. . . plus there's a Bit of a tune Demo'ing the Synth no worries if your busy,tho,,, J:)