What is the Quran?

[MegaHurtz]

tadaa!

[MegaHurtz]

Timetravel anyone ?
Now thats something to believe in

allow me...

[aliasant]

Timetravel anyone ?
Now thats something to believe in

allow me...

LOL!

Took a while for me to get it

[trogluddite]

Wasnt that more of a faked "science" to "prove" an idea and to sell an agenda?

Much of it was considered consistent with the scientific theories of the time - and you only have to look at the debates about the true 'meaning' of quantum physics to see scientists with different mind-sets drawing different conclusions from the same data. Not so much a distortion of science, as cherry-picking only those bits of it that agree with a particular prejudice.

Similarly, the vast majority of Christians and Muslims would point to the guidance in their holy books, and correctly point out that, whatever your attitude to the 'fairy stories', they generally promote tolerance and peaceful co-existence.
For example, to most Muslims the translation of 'Jihad' as 'Holy War' is a gross distortion, it's meaning is more akin to "striving to make the living world more like heaven". Equally, there are some Christians who spend a lot of time trying scare us all with the horrors of the Book of Revelations, yet seem to forget all about the positive, humanitarian fables about Jesus.
That was my main reason for turning away from religion - I smelled something fishy when I realised that the same God couldn't make his mind up if I should turn the other cheek or take an eye for an eye. At least science (when done properly) tries to be consistent - but don't let the equations fool you into thinking that it is 'truth', it is still only ever an 'explanation' or 'interpretation'.

Even if religion is a bad thing, the only part of it that science can replace is the "how does the universe work, where did it come from?" part. Science will never 'prove' that killing another human in cold blood is 'evil' as it is not a scientific hypothesis, but a moral judgment. There will always need to be something outside of science to give us the wisdom to know how to use the knowledge we discover, and to guide the way we construct our societies - whether it is 'God' or just that seeing another human treated cruelly make us cringe.

Or maybe the aliens will come and save us from ourselves!

[MegaHurtz]

If you logically examine the exclusion from a finite truth. This would be rational.
So the truth would be relative, and obscured for the purpose of creating a certain "truth" in the first place.
Those who claim to know the truth, conflict with the nature of being. Simply because they are the ones to delay truthfulness to take place.

Understandably to be told about the truth in a highly illiterate world, would be a popular thing.
And the social pressure of God fearing outbursts of (paradoxical) violence, would be enough to make any man fear a higher being. BUT here in the western world evolution has provided us with an unrivaled level of impulses, that make people objectively define life for their selves. And it has been shown that the majority of people here are equipped to handle this responsibility in a social and loving way. Even so, most Muslims that decide to settle here are converted by us, to live their life in the way we like to live ours. And the ones that should be fearing God, are the ones mistreating their woman and children via these doctrines.
I say face it, we are and will be highly advanced, even in the eyes of God himself.
No book can turn the clock. Maybe its about time we did birth control.
This because most westerners are used to a low mortality rate. So for us it doesnt matter all that much.
You may think im a racist but im actually not. Just intolerant about intolerant people.

[lesobrod]

What a duscussion!
"Can't be silent" as said Lev Tolstoy about turning religion into government institution.
But I can't write in English about such spiritual themes, only about phys/math
So just another trying to draw your attention to the real point of balance between heart and mind,
science and spiritual journey.
It's especially concerned MegaHurtz and trogluddite. Their thoughts are very close to mine.

I'm practisize over 15 years pure observation of mind & body calling Vipassana
and some Yoga & Chi Kung (and greate Russian meditation - ice hole swimming ).
So I risk to repeat a link to one of greatest understanding of Universe:
http://allspirit.co.uk/hsinhsinming.html
and simple (but real "manual") book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Buddha-Tau ... y_b_text_b

And please note (new science agree with it):
the thing what we call "I" , "Self" is just a group of connecting processes,
that was self-organized and named ...
Only clear understanding of this simple idea can save all the world from wars and terror.

[tor]

E=MC² ± 3 dB - The sound-engineers theory of relativity

[trogluddite]

(and greate Russian meditation - ice hole swimming ).

Brrrrr.
But it is true, maybe partly the shock, partly being in an environment that is so unlike the padded 'civilised' environment - is good for the soul somehow.
My 'Trogluddite' tag came about because I used to explore the underground caverns that are under the hills around here - so close to home in physical distance, yet days away from rescue if an accident should happen, and some places that have been visited less than the moon. I did this solo on several occasions, and I have to say that the experience seemed almost like an hallucination - there were voices, footsteps, movements in the corner of the eye (all 'impossible' in a material sense).
I have never had success with meditation - I seem to have nerves that will not let me relax enough - but these experiences of being in 'another world', I imagine, open up similar parts of the mind. At least it reminded that science and spirituality can be complementary, not in opposition.

[Acrobat]

it reminded that science and spirituality can be complementary, not in opposition.

same here, I always go around the eastern alps at least once in a year, there are wonderful places there, trekking...

[Acrobat]

Equal in Heaven ? fair God who rewards us for what we have done

I think you are quite off the road if you judge religions as if they were Economics,
usually religions are things you actually don't choose by your own, that's the point.
In a certain way you are forced by the surroundings, and sometimes you dont' even
realize your are believing, you just follow the rules around you like family and society traditions and such.

I hope this consideration can help you to understand there's nothing to choose like in a supermarket, at least you
can "dismiss" a credo, most of the times. Just like you can dismiss the credo in Economics themselves.

[crisalex]

hey frndz I am looking for Quran Audio online plz help…

[adamszabo]

Allah does not allow digitalization of the quran

[infuzion]

Allah does not allow digitalization of the quran

While this sounds like a poke, it kinda is true.
AFAIK, (not sure if according to tradition or Isalmic law)
1) The Quran can not be destroyed/burned, but by default the internet is all about destroying/deleting (caches, etc)
2) The Quran can not be put on the ground, but there is no way if an HD storing the Quran may not be put on the ground...

Google helps: http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/

I personally have a hard time with Islam; too many contradictions & the only way to follow it is to not.

[adamszabo]

Plus if you kill random people in the name of Allah, you get your 72 virgins. But lets not go into these since this forum is not about religion, and its propably bots posting about the quran to start a religious war

[tester]

Are you talking about the mathematical Bible Code, which is pretty interesting software anyway?