SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

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SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby mwvdlee on Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:10 pm

I've already reported some things here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9996

From what I've tested, it seems like the SM2 MIDI inputs are (semi-)randomly skipping notes. I'm inputting from a digital MIDI instruments, and some of the MIDI notes played on the hardware don't seem to be getting into SM2.

I've stripped down the project which worked fine (in this aspect) in SM1.7, to where it was just taking in plain MIDI notes and playing some basic samples without any effects, interpolation or even sample rate correction and it still managed to skip MIDI notes. The entire GUI was deleted except for the bare minimal parts I needed to get visual feedback on what was happenning internally. I don't know what more to strip without losing either sound or visual.

I've tested both MIDI>Poly and MIDI>Voices>Poly (tested all 32 possible boolean input combinations) paths, and they both produce the same skipping. Also tried the M>V>P standard module with the same results.

Here are some of the symptoms:
[*]Sometimes it's a single skipped note, sometimes it's a couple of notes in a row (within part of a second).
[*]The note-skipping seems to be linked to the green thread somehow, in that whenever it skips a couple of notes in a row, the GUI seems to stop refreshing too for the same period of time. I'm unable to visually see this for single-note skips.
[*]It also seems to skip more notes when playing multiple notes at the same time or in very fast sequence.
[*]The amount of skipping seems to change with what part of the schematic is visible on screen.

It's kinda hard to make a demonstration of this without giving away my schematic, but when people start using SM2 with actual MIDI hardware, I think it won't take long; I can play certain sequences that trigger this skipping within a few seconds.

This worked just fine, unchanged, in SM1.7, so it's a bug introduced in SM2.
My current top SynthMaker bug:
    1. MIDI Input issue (showstopper, no workaround)
    2. All my previous bugs in SM1.7, because bug 1 makes SM2 worse than SM1.7
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby MichaelBenjamin on Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:58 pm

that sounds pretty wierd, i havent encountered this yet.
maybe since redrawings use much more cpu (should be less), and it depends on what you see, maybe the green thread gets overloaded? not much of an idea else.
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby infuzion on Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:25 pm

MichaelBenjamin wrote:that sounds pretty wierd, i havent encountered this yet.
maybe since redrawings use much more cpu (should be less), and it depends on what you see, maybe the green thread gets overloaded? not much of an idea else.
Perhaps...
But really, all bug reports need atleast an OSM sent to support @ synthmaker, & helps to attach an OSM on the forum post for others to test. Also helps to know the CPU & computer specs when dealing with possible errors like this.
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby Tzarls on Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:28 pm

Does it skip notes it you just connect a midi in to a midi out (a pass-thru thing)?
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby mwvdlee on Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:45 pm

infuzion wrote:But really, all bug reports need atleast an OSM sent to support @ synthmaker, & helps to attach an OSM on the forum post for others to test.

Bug reports should not require customers to send in their copyrighted work.
I'll try to build a demo which does not contain any significant code, but the current description should be enough for OutSim to start looking; they know what they changed so they might have a good idea of what might have caused this.
Trying to make reproductions of bugs takes a lot of time, time I prefer to spend fixing my own bugs or just doing stuff I actually enjoy, and, quite frankly, I'm a little pissed off with waiting this long and paying for SM2 update, then finding it broken in one of the most significant areas.
infuzion wrote:Also helps to know the CPU & computer specs when dealing with possible errors like this.

AMD Athlon X2 Dual 4200, 2GB RAM, ASIO4ALL-controlled no-name audio.

@MichaelBenjamin. IMHO, MIDI I/O should be in the high-priority audio thread, not the normal-priority green thread. AFAIK, MIDI I/O _is_ (or "was"?) in the audio thread.

@Tzarls; I don't have any hardware to use the MIDI out signal, so I have no way of checking this.
My current top SynthMaker bug:
    1. MIDI Input issue (showstopper, no workaround)
    2. All my previous bugs in SM1.7, because bug 1 makes SM2 worse than SM1.7
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby Tzarls on Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:59 pm

You can export you OSM as VSTi. Then load it in your DAW, insert a track cointaining some MIDI events and route it to the VSTi. Route the MIDI events coming out of the VSTi to go into another track and record those notes. :)
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby mwvdlee on Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:38 pm

Tzarls wrote:You can export you OSM as VSTi. Then load it in your DAW, insert a track cointaining some MIDI events and route it to the VSTi. Route the MIDI events coming out of the VSTi to go into another track and record those notes. :)

I don't use any DAW :)
Basically I use VSTIHost as I'm currently only working on either standalone .exe or instruments meant for real-time playing.
I don't know of any good, free, DAW's, so if you can direct me to one that is suitable for testing this issue...
My current top SynthMaker bug:
    1. MIDI Input issue (showstopper, no workaround)
    2. All my previous bugs in SM1.7, because bug 1 makes SM2 worse than SM1.7
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby attic on Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:05 am

I'm am also having these problems and in the same situation in giving away an osm as I have a year into it and cant afford to let the idea out yet. The midi triggering seems to be the issue it is causing intermittent bursts of sound from my sample playback engine and in such away as to risk any speakers that are used for bug testing. I'm in windows 7 64bit running on a Motu 2408mk3 midi is coming from a Korg M3 on the usb connection. This problem doesn't seem to exist in trogluddites sk sampler http://synthmaker.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9466 that has some similarities to my project. My project also has similarities to the wave player osm that I posted at the bottom. It doesn't seem to have the same problems but it also doesn't have adsr and other things in it that my project does.
Attachments
Wave Player 1-2-0-1.osm
(2.75 MiB) Downloaded 315 times
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby mwvdlee on Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:34 am

The audio burst may be caused by MIDI too; maybe MIDI notes are just queued and when it doesn't take in notes for a fraction of a second, any notes played in that time are taken in all at once after that fraction of a second. I haven't noticed this myself, but perhaps it's what caused the "popping" sounds I heard.
My current top SynthMaker bug:
    1. MIDI Input issue (showstopper, no workaround)
    2. All my previous bugs in SM1.7, because bug 1 makes SM2 worse than SM1.7
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby attic on Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:02 am

maybe MIDI notes are just queued and when it doesn't take in notes for a fraction of a second, any notes played in that time are taken in all at once after that fraction of a second


The way you state it is about as close to what I'm experiencing as could described. The bursts are intermittent, If I play a fast run of keys it will make a burst of distorted noise about 20 percent of the time. Usually one long burst, the other notes come out clear but then the distortion hits and it red-lines the meters for a second or two, also I get clicks and pops at key press time depending on adsr type or setting.
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby MichaelBenjamin on Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:50 am

do you use an adsr primitive? if yes maybe try to exchange with another adsr.
also if you got midi-midi in over a pci card (not usb midi in) you could try that.
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby attic on Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:29 am

Update so the bursts of distortion are gone something in the adsr's no clue what and it doesn't matter what adsr is in there it does it for all of them. Now the thing is without an adsr in the project I'm down to just the clicks and pops on triggering a sample. The loud pops happen between 1 and 8 key press's depends.
I don't know of any good, free, DAW's, so if you can direct me to one that is suitable for testing this issue.

Reaper its not free but it will run forever without any functionality gone you just have to wait for a five second countdown before using it. If your not using Reaper you should try it.

Edit .. After more testing and loading many variety of sample players it comes to this. Anything that uses midi to trigger
a sample on a Motu 2408mk3 Firewire is not working at least on Windows 7 64. This happens even if you do not use external midi to trigger but trigger from a button from within Synthmaker tested on two different Motu interfaces and two separate computers and the same results clicks at sample trigger.
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby Iman on Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:04 pm

Same here, Skipping note occurs in my exported exe and also inside SM environment.

Sometimes you cannot set voice number less than 8, I cannot play with 2,3,4,5 voices in some presets but when i select another preset or set voice more than 8 it starts receiving MIDI. very strange and totally random!

I think there is something wrong with new Enhanced "M to V" primitive.
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby mwvdlee on Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:48 pm

Iman wrote:Same here, Skipping note occurs in my exported exe and also inside SM environment.

Sometimes you cannot set voice number less than 8, I cannot play with 2,3,4,5 voices in some presets but when i select another preset or set voice more than 8 it starts receiving MIDI. very strange and totally random!

I think there is something wrong with new Enhanced "M to V" primitive.

It happens with the "MIDI to Poly" primitive too. Probably something shared by both.
I get the skipping voices even though I have it set to 128 voices (I only ever get to 40 or so).
My current top SynthMaker bug:
    1. MIDI Input issue (showstopper, no workaround)
    2. All my previous bugs in SM1.7, because bug 1 makes SM2 worse than SM1.7
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Re: SM2 MIDI input skipping notes

Postby attic on Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:06 am

For those of you who may be having clicks on sample trigger. In SM2 there are changes to the way the stages work in the SM2 audio code so that the delays will work correctly.

This means that any Code Component that uses the Stage() keywords would need to be recompiled. SynthMaker only recompiles Code Component code if the code changes. This makes loading and saving much faster. It just so happens that the change will require some code components to be recompiled.

In your schematic there may be a delay and in that there are a few code components that use stages.
I'm not certain but it may be that all Code Components need to be recompiled, not just the ones that use Stages. The workaround is to go into code components that use stages and make some small change (add a blank line say) then click away to make them recompile. Just to be safe and banish the clicks permanently you may want to do this to all Code components.

I don't know if this will have any bearing on the midi note issue itself but it is worth a try and it did solve the problem I was having with clicks and pops on sample triggering. Let me know if this helps.
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