+ SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

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Does your music computer have SSE2 (equal or greator than P4, Athlon64...)

Poll ended at Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:36 pm

Yes, I have atleast one SSE2 computer now
18
78%
No, but I will buy a new Windows computer with in 6 months (eg dual core)
0
No votes
No, but I will buy a new dual core Mac soon
0
No votes
No, and I'm unsure about buying a new computer soon.
5
21%
No: I'm building hardware synths only now
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 23

Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby aliasant on Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:46 am

Christmas loving would be very nice indeed.
lets mailbomb Malc to "convince" him of updating the ASM SSE part.

These are the instructions sets my new i7 has and I assume most other new CPUs has the same.
x86, x86-64, MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2

What of these do we have in SM?

I guess: x86, SSE, SSE2 and only parts of it too or ?
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby infuzion on Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:32 pm

aliasant wrote:lets mailbomb Malc to "convince" him of updating the ASM SSE part.

These are the instructions sets my new i7 has and I assume most other new CPUs has the same.
x86, x86-64, MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2

What of these do we have in SM? I guess: x86, SSE, SSE2 and only parts of it too or ?
I mailbombing is a good idea. I do think that people who released effects for mastering (bootsy, perhaps McBarGig) can make a case that bigger floats will make their effects sound more professional. That's how Ableton Live addressed the issues with Live5 sounding too "digital" for final mixdowns as a DAW; adding 64bit floats to effects. Also if someone needs supper fast FFT SSE3 is the way to go.

SSE3 is well covered by all x86 CPUs released over the past 5 years. SSSE, & everything above that tend to be vendor specific.

There is only a small subset of x86 & SSE1 available to users ASM. There are a few more opcodes currently used by SM's other primitives not available to us directly in the ASM primitive. Only 2 SSE2 opcodes are directly available us are to help with converting 32bit floating point with 32bit integers.

I'm sure when SM was created 8 years ago SSE1 is fine, & is OK (though may be faster in a few cases) for just instruments, but when it comes to effects, many other VSTs use 64bit+ floats, so they naturally sound better.
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby aliasant on Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:03 pm

So what would it take for Malc to make this real ?

We all know he is very busy working on a ton of things so if this is hard to incorporate into SM....

Would it be easy for him to add this to SM?
Isnt this just instructions that needs to be added to a list or does it require a total rewrite?
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby infuzion on Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:01 pm

aliasant wrote:So what would it take for Malc to make this real ?
Adding the opcodes in the ASM only? Three (3) hours.

Adding new connectors: a day? The only primitive I'm really worried about is Double Poly to Double Mono since most everything else can be made in ASM I think, so maybe a few days/week coding & testing I'm guessing. Adding float double primitives for others (Like wave/wavetable readers & players) 1 to 60 days I'm guessing, depending how much malc wants to implement. Almost as many man-hours as this thread took. ;)
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby infuzion on Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:53 am

From my research, it seems that Christian Budde & others believe that switching from 32bit to 64bit floats help stabilize filters
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby Andrew J on Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:36 pm

infuzion wrote:From my research, it seems that Christian Budde & others believe that switching from 32bit to 64bit floats help stabilize filters


Yes the increased precision helps with stability. However there are techniques for implementing filters as a series of second order filters in 32 bit which can also achieve good stability.
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby MegaHurtz on Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:35 pm

sse3 does this "addps,xmm1,xmm2,xmm3;"
+1!
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby infuzion on Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:27 pm

MegaHurtz wrote:sse3 does this "addps,xmm1,xmm2,xmm3;"
+1!
Thanks for the vote, but you are mistaken of what sse3 does.
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby MegaHurtz on Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:25 pm

Yr right my friend, had a less hungover read and came to the same conclusion.
It`s the moving within registers that`s elaborated... Still +1.. +1...+1.
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby infuzion on Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:53 pm

MegaHurtz wrote:sse3 does this "addps,xmm1,xmm2,xmm3;"
However, in a not too distant future, there will be a fused multiply add coming to your desktop CPU. So if in your example xmm1 = xmm2, then you will be correct
then.
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby TheAudiophileDutchman on Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:17 pm

Votes= Votes + 1 (maybe cheating, as in the past I must have voted for this before) ;)

Full SSE2-support would at least also give SSE-integers and almost 100% compatibility with PC's of current users... andin case of full SSE3-support this may also be >90%...
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby infuzion on Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:25 am

TheAudiophileDutchman wrote:Full SSE2-support would at least also give SSE-integers and almost 100% compatibility with PC's of current users... andin case of full SSE3-support this may also be >90%...
I'm sure very very few will not have SSE3, since even netbooks have SSE3... unless you have a netbook with an ARM CPU ;) . I personally don't care about that tiny % without SSE3, since I want to sell VSTs.
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby infuzion on Thu May 20, 2010 5:59 am

6monthfrontpagebumpplease
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby Jay on Fri May 21, 2010 11:44 am

+ vote

Whilst i don't understand ASM nor use it, i do think you guys should get 64bit support.

with computers being dirt cheap nowadays, I truly do not know of anyone using a machine (for music creation) any less than dual core!
(If you are then i am sorry for you ;) )

dual core and 64bit computing are now seen as a basic setup afaik, even most of the low budget computers from many of the manufacturers out there fit this standard

If you don't have multicore and 64bit computing then time for a new PC :)
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Re: + SSE2=64bit audio, SSE3=faster FFT... please

Postby infuzion on Fri May 21, 2010 1:30 pm

Jay wrote:with computers being dirt cheap nowadays, I truly do not know of anyone using a machine (for music creation) any less than dual core! If you don't have multicore and 64bit computing then time for a new PC :)
Even the Atom chips used in Netbooks have SSE3.
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