Lockable Modules (split from "SynthMaker Update" topic)

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Lockable Modules (split from "SynthMaker Update" topic)

Postby mwvdlee on Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:59 am

tektoog wrote:Also, will there be mp3 primitives in the next SM update?
or should I buy Flowstone now with the crossgrade price?
<Cause I wouldn't like to find out that there isn't MP3 compatibility in the next SM update as it is available now in Flowstone, and then to have to pay the full price for Flowstone...>

I'd be surprised if ANY audio-related or generic functionality in Flowstone will be missing in SM. :)

What I'm really wondering is whether we'll get stuff like networking, basic graphics modules and other modules that aren't part of the hardware-focus of FS.

I wish SM/FS had a pay-per-module feature... want the Internet modules? Pay $ m,- one-time fee, want module ? pay $ n,- one-time fee. It might be a bit more difficult to implement, but it'd probably work out great for Outsim financially speaking; like the current iPhone/iPad/Android app-stores; tiny apps for tiny prices add up to a lot of money as a whole.
My current top SynthMaker bug:
    1. MIDI Input issue (showstopper, no workaround)
    2. All my previous bugs in SM1.7, because bug 1 makes SM2 worse than SM1.7
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Lockable Modules (split from "SynthMaker Update" topic)

Postby Disco_Steve on Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:52 am

the problem with that would be sharing between people. and making the modules locked just didn't work, so alot of work would be needed. I do really like that idea though.
and potentially you could get module deelopers within the SM comunity! we could have our own little module store

AMAZZING LIMITER ALGO just £3
uber linear phase EQ just £2

would probably kill the forum! but would be great!
and getting recognition for your modules would be garentieed, even if you only got £3.

I think the rate of development and the number of users of SM would greatly increase.
the word would get out that with SM you can by myco's BLAR for £3 on top of buying SM, add it to a Disco_Steve Limiter for £4 and you have an UBER mastering VST.

I'm in love with this idea! DO it SM do it!!!!
- the future sounds better.
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby aliasant on Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:07 pm

Disco_Steve wrote:the problem with that would be sharing between people. and making the modules locked just didn't work, so alot of work would be needed. I do really like that idea though.
and potentially you could get module deelopers within the SM comunity! we could have our own little module store

AMAZZING LIMITER ALGO just £3
uber linear phase EQ just £2

would probably kill the forum! but would be great!
and getting recognition for your modules would be garentieed, even if you only got £3.

I think the rate of development and the number of users of SM would greatly increase.
the word would get out that with SM you can by myco's BLAR for £3 on top of buying SM, add it to a Disco_Steve Limiter for £4 and you have an UBER mastering VST.

I'm in love with this idea! DO it SM do it!!!!



Been having the same wet dream since Malc started working on lockable modules but since it seems to hard to realize I dont think we will ever get that lucky :(
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby mwvdlee on Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:59 pm

aliasant wrote:Been having the same wet dream since Malc started working on lockable modules but since it seems to hard to realize I dont think we will ever get that lucky :(

What's to stop anybody from selling user-made modules right now?
Sure, there's no copyright protection, but copyright protection would be cracked anyway, not having it just gives you more time to create sellable modules ;)
The only thing that might be an issue is that it's pretty hard to come up with something worthwhile that other people couldn't easily duplicate themselves.
My current top SynthMaker bug:
    1. MIDI Input issue (showstopper, no workaround)
    2. All my previous bugs in SM1.7, because bug 1 makes SM2 worse than SM1.7
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby aliasant on Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:07 pm

mwvdlee wrote:
aliasant wrote:Been having the same wet dream since Malc started working on lockable modules but since it seems to hard to realize I dont think we will ever get that lucky :(

What's to stop anybody from selling user-made modules right now?
Sure, there's no copyright protection, but copyright protection would be cracked anyway, not having it just gives you more time to create sellable modules ;)
The only thing that might be an issue is that it's pretty hard to come up with something worthwhile that other people couldn't easily duplicate themselves.



Well.

If I could lock modules some how I could sell eg. aliasants Crispy Limiter or iPhoonish gui module b labla... for say 3 euro / copy. Then others can use them as they please in their own builds but if my module is all open and my secret ingredients are fully visible.....
Copyrights.. Well. Not that many that seems to care about that these days :(

If I could lock modules or create my own primitives that noone can "hack" then I would be much more willing to give stuff away for free too. Thats probably the most intruiging aspect of this. I think thees a lot of us that has modules that we feel reluctant sharing simply because we dont want to spill our secret sauce.
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby MichaelBenjamin on Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:54 pm

stop with the secrets already. if something is secret it very quickly tends to be stupid and not interesting.
if you want to share, share 100% - or if you think its not yet the time, dont share at all. either is ok.

besides i think its much more fun to build a personal wacko limiter and doing stuff with it compared to buying prefabs and then wiring them together like plugins in energy xt.
in general electronic music needs less presets, less prefabs, less commercial and free plugins, and more individual structures to keep it alive. sm is perfect to build such structures from scratch without being bothered by the madness of a vst sdk or c++ in general. thats why the the codebox needs an update, since its simply the most powerful feature of sm.
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby tor on Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:03 pm

Amen :)
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)

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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby datsound on Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:33 am

The idea of locking is sly but what prevents you from selling your modules to us as long as you trust that synthmaker users have the honesty to not give it to others, and how would locking a module make it better to sell? Access to the module is the same whether it is locked or not as long as you sell it. It would even be less versatile if it were locked. say that you sell 10-20 of a good module unlocked, for $5 that would be ok too?...

i would pay loads and loads for certain modules if they made the sound more powerful, for a resale vsti, cos some of the things in my present synth are rather insipid or thin.
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby aliasant on Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:19 am

datsound wrote:The idea of locking is sly but what prevents you from selling your modules to us as long as you trust that synthmaker users have the honesty to not give it to others, and how would locking a module make it better to sell? Access to the module is the same whether it is locked or not as long as you sell it. It would even be less versatile if it were locked. say that you sell 10-20 of a good module unlocked, for $5 that would be ok too?...

i would pay loads and loads for certain modules if they made the sound more powerful, for a resale vsti, cos some of the things in my present synth are rather insipid or thin.


Well. Writing this before I had my first coffe.......

Its not all about selling. Its about being able to upload a schematic as an example or upload a whole .osm when asking help of others in the community and so much more.

We all, except MB and Tor, have our little secrets that we have spent weeks, months or even years on developing and just giving those away feels sour.
(Just because it takes me years to develope something doesnt mean its any good. It just means Im slow but it's still my valued time and my effort in the product)

About asking for help:
Lets say I have an osm Im working on but I need help solving a specific part.
As it is today its often we think. "Hmm. If I upload the whole .osm as it is I will reveal all my little secrets.. Ill skip uploading it...."
Maybe we really really need help so we start taking out parts that are secret and by this we make the whole .osm non functional. Uploading a non functioning osm is not as fun for those trying to solve your problems so you will get less help.

If we could lock modules inside our schematic we would be able to upload the whole thing but lock the modules that we dont want others to look inside. Others can test the locked modules by sending in data and looking at the outputs (eg. for trouble shooting) .
This would save us the hassle of trying to remove all the secret parts and would therefor enable us to upload a fully working osm to the forums instead of a non working, hatched up osm.

Im also thinking about the future. If we had lockable modules I think popularity of SM would reach new hights.
People love to create little mini apps, which is what modules are in a way. We could trade them like baseball cards, sell them or just give them away. We would also know that this module will always work the way we intended ( bugs included) so if someone asks for help and has the "Exo Module 415b" you would know that this particular module has a bug that prevents naked ladies from entering your lair and that this is likely to be the probably the problem with the osm.

SM could even have its own little AppStore( like Apples) were we can trade, sell or give away apps and modules and also give critics and what nots.
Lockable modules are a key for this to work.
It adds a new dimension to SM ( and I guess Flowstone)


About selling an unlocked module.
Well.
Before you buy anything from me you would need to know what it is Im selling and to know that you would need to test my modules.
If I give you an unlocked module o test and you say... neeeh. That was not what I was looking for at all......

I dont mind giving those I know a little peak or even a whole idea or system but this is not about that. This is about being able to give a complete stranger access to whatever I want to trade.


Lockable modules are a big part of a great future for SM ad Flowstone but only if they are truly lockable.
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby mwvdlee on Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:34 am

Maybe move the discussion of users selling modules to other users to a new thread?
My current top SynthMaker bug:
    1. MIDI Input issue (showstopper, no workaround)
    2. All my previous bugs in SM1.7, because bug 1 makes SM2 worse than SM1.7
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby Disco_Steve on Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:06 pm

if a synth guy, used an excelent pre fabed limiter at the end of the chain. he would be able to spend all his time on the synthy bits. thats the advantage of using pre fabed modules, it gives you more time for the bits you actually care about!

also new memebrs can 'shove somthing together' even easier than they can curently, which is surly a good thing? as I remember being a noob
ARRRRRRRRRR ;)
- the future sounds better.
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby TomC on Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:15 pm

Disco_Steve wrote:also new memebrs can 'shove somthing together' even easier than they can curently, which is surly a good thing? as I remember being a noob
ARRRRRRRRRR ;)


Let me slightly disagree with you. The scenario you mentioned above is probably the MAIN reason for the not-so-good reputation SynthMaker had for a long time (and still has).

Tom
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby Disco_Steve on Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:54 pm

it is a pitty that people felt that by conecting a few defaut modules together they had made something worth distrobuting. for learning I think it is fantastic. and the way you can drill down and see the detail but you only need to drill as far as you're ready for.

could we have a 'No Export' locked modules. that would allow people to learn, but would not allow people to export?
- the future sounds better.
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby Jay on Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:25 pm

Exellent idea to have some sort of module mart :) would be nice if ADMIN could arrange a modules offered and wanted section for the forum and website!

I would have been delighted to pay for the module packs already provided by some of you guys, had they not been free in the first place :)

I also agree that there is a nessesity for having prefabs for newbies, even not so newbies,I am maths challenged so theres a lot of stuff i can't make but want to make. I came here at the time of SM CM Edition when there was already a fair smattering of modules and examples available to users on the forum. But, had i came here and was faced with nothing but learning curve then i most likely would not have remained here to date! I feel thet there are many users that fit that bill also.

Locked modules, good idea but could end up a waste of time because, the modules would be secure for the most part , normal everyday users don't have the kind of knowhow to force them open.However the minute someone puts together a module pack and asks for money they then give that module pack value and hence the incentive for the crackers to crack it!

and you bet you ass they will! they F&*£*ng love SM and SE, both packages give them lots of new VST makers and lots new VSTs to crack! The music application crack scene is flooded with stuff SM & SE based.Most of it is the half assed stuff tom speaks of above ;) lol they perate stuff that you guys would fall about laughing at! some twit even rebranded the SM example and team assign pirated it!In fact i am sure they did the rebranding too.

But roll on the SM Module Shop! :D Hope you are all busy making :love:

Best Regards
Jay
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Re: SynthMaker Update

Postby bootsy on Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:57 pm

why sell modules if you can't sell an S|M made app?
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